Comments on: ACE should be put in the hole! http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/ Science, science education, and other things ... with a distinctly Southern drawl Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:18:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Abie http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-5644 Abie Mon, 20 Nov 2006 04:16:43 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-5644 Oh. My. I'm speechless. I can't even begin to understand how you went through this and managed to retain mental sanity. I feel deeply sorry for you and for any child that is subjected to such an excuse for early education and schooling, even those that will never know the pangs of doubt and self-examination. If i lived in the US be sure that I would join your fight to amend this. Good luck! Oh. My.
I’m speechless.
I can’t even begin to understand how you went through this and managed to retain mental sanity.
I feel deeply sorry for you and for any child that is subjected to such an excuse for early education and schooling, even those that will never know the pangs of doubt and self-examination.

If i lived in the US be sure that I would join your fight to amend this.

Good luck!

]]> By: Rev. BigDumbChimp http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2984 Rev. BigDumbChimp Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:44:02 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2984 I went to private schools up until I was Junior in Highschool and they were fantastic. The line however has to be drawn here between a private non-religious and a private fundamentalist religious school. I'm pretty sure that you will not find the ACE curriculum at any accredited private school. The study recently done by part of the Education Dept. showed that Fundamentalist private schools (ACE would be one of thier curriculums of choice) scored equal to or worse than public schools on a number of subjects, math in particular. While I don't see it particularily addressing science I'm going to go ahead and assume that they fared worse. I went to private schools up until I was Junior in Highschool and they were fantastic. The line however has to be drawn here between a private non-religious and a private fundamentalist religious school. I’m pretty sure that you will not find the ACE curriculum at any accredited private school. The study recently done by part of the Education Dept. showed that Fundamentalist private schools (ACE would be one of thier curriculums of choice) scored equal to or worse than public schools on a number of subjects, math in particular. While I don’t see it particularily addressing science I’m going to go ahead and assume that they fared worse.

]]> By: Karen http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2897 Karen Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:38:05 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2897 While both interested, and horrified, to learn of the substandard ACE curriculum, I would like to point out that there at least a few, and may be many, private schools that use good curricula and whose students are challenged and learning. My children attend such a school and on standardized tests, not PACT, but the nationwide ITBS test, score several grade levels higher. By the way, I concur that vouchers are not a good idea, though if someone wants to give me a tax credit I wouldn't refuse. While both interested, and horrified, to learn of the substandard ACE curriculum, I would like to point out that there at least a few, and may be many, private schools that use good curricula and whose students are challenged and learning. My children attend such a school and on standardized tests, not PACT, but the nationwide ITBS test, score several grade levels higher.

By the way, I concur that vouchers are not a good idea, though if someone wants to give me a tax credit I wouldn’t refuse.

]]> By: Rick http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2878 Rick Sat, 05 Aug 2006 21:10:31 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2878 <i>i grew up going to southern baptist with my grandma, but my mom had me confirmed as an episcopalian when i was 11. that was about the only time, save a few others, i went to the episcopal church so the s. baptist had more influence on me.</i> In a sense, that's what happened to me. My family were members of the *United* Methodist church, but sent me to the crazy fundamentalist school run by the *Southern* Methodists (<i>splitters!</i>) - which vary more than most folks might think in their teachings. i grew up going to southern baptist with my grandma, but my mom had me confirmed as an episcopalian when i was 11. that was about the only time, save a few others, i went to the episcopal church so the s. baptist had more influence on me.

In a sense, that’s what happened to me. My family were members of the *United* Methodist church, but sent me to the crazy fundamentalist school run by the *Southern* Methodists (splitters!) - which vary more than most folks might think in their teachings.

]]> By: eric http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2875 eric Sat, 05 Aug 2006 19:27:50 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2875 understood. i grew up going to southern baptist with my grandma, but my mom had me confirmed as an episcopalian when i was 11. that was about the only time, save a few others, i went to the episcopal church so the s. baptist had more influence on me. when i got older, i've come to appreciate what my mom did for me (even if it was half-assed) because i was able to realize there was more viewpoints. i'm now a layreader in the episcopal church. when i visit my grandma i go to her church (i'm actually going tomorrow). it's strange to hear it that way. i felt like i was in the matrix. e+ understood.

i grew up going to southern baptist with my grandma, but my mom had me confirmed as an episcopalian when i was 11. that was about the only time, save a few others, i went to the episcopal church so the s. baptist had more influence on me.

when i got older, i’ve come to appreciate what my mom did for me (even if it was half-assed) because i was able to realize there was more viewpoints. i’m now a layreader in the episcopal church. when i visit my grandma i go to her church (i’m actually going tomorrow). it’s strange to hear it that way. i felt like i was in the matrix.

e+

]]> By: Bill http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2874 Bill Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:58:53 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2874 1. In what year of math did you learn how many loaves and fishes it took to feed 4,000? 2. Were there at least a few jokes in the back like, "How many Pharisees does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 1. In what year of math did you learn how many loaves and fishes it took to feed 4,000?

2. Were there at least a few jokes in the back like, “How many Pharisees does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

]]> By: Rick http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2860 Rick Thu, 03 Aug 2006 21:08:03 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2860 <i>These are homeschool lessons. If a parent wants to raise an ignorant kid, that is their choice. </i> Just to eliminate any confusion: Yes, the site I link to above sells the ACE curriculum to homeschoolers. ACE ministries doesn't have sample lessons or <i>detailed</i> information on their curriculum on their own web sites. The same curriculum is also used in private religious schools (like the one I attended as a child). So, it's not <i>just</i> a homeschool issue. At the moment, I don't believe we directly give much taxpayer money to ACE schools in South Carolina. Having said that - this will change if and when South Carolina starts up a voucher/"school choice" program. These are homeschool lessons. If a parent wants to raise an ignorant kid, that is their choice.

Just to eliminate any confusion: Yes, the site I link to above sells the ACE curriculum to homeschoolers. ACE ministries doesn’t have sample lessons or detailed information on their curriculum on their own web sites. The same curriculum is also used in private religious schools (like the one I attended as a child). So, it’s not just a homeschool issue.

At the moment, I don’t believe we directly give much taxpayer money to ACE schools in South Carolina. Having said that - this will change if and when South Carolina starts up a voucher/”school choice” program.

]]> By: JB http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2859 JB Thu, 03 Aug 2006 20:43:18 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2859 I agree 100%, but (there's always a but): 1. These are homeschool lessons. If a parent wants to raise an ignorant kid, that is their choice. I don't know if homeschooled kids need/have to take a standardized test to get a high school diploma (GED?) in SC, but if they do they are at a serious disadvantage. Natural selection will be at work in college (if they make it that far) and in the real world (if they choose to live in it). 2. Do any of these ACE schools, in SC, receive state funding? If they don't, it probably isn't any of our business. I've only lived in SC for a few years, so this poor education system is new to me. -JB (Any typos or misspellings are purely coincidental and/or due to the shoddy quality of this keyboard) I agree 100%, but (there’s always a but):

1. These are homeschool lessons. If a parent wants to raise an ignorant kid, that is their choice. I don’t know if homeschooled kids need/have to take a standardized test to get a high school diploma (GED?) in SC, but if they do they are at a serious disadvantage. Natural selection will be at work in college (if they make it that far) and in the real world (if they choose to live in it).

2. Do any of these ACE schools, in SC, receive state funding? If they don’t, it probably isn’t any of our business.

I’ve only lived in SC for a few years, so this poor education system is new to me.

-JB

(Any typos or misspellings are purely coincidental and/or due to the shoddy quality of this keyboard)

]]> By: Rick http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2855 Rick Thu, 03 Aug 2006 04:26:05 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2855 The particular breed of fundamentalism that I was exposed to in the ACE school was good ol' <a href="http://www.jonathanedwards.com/sermons/Warnings/sinners.htm" rel="nofollow">fire and brimstone</a> fundamentalism. God was good and kind, all-powerful, all-knowing - but at the same time if you crossed him you were worthy of eternal torture. I think the ACE curriculum samples from third grade science <a href="http://www.abbahomeschool.com/photos/3scpg33.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> would probably give you the best view of what a supervisor would probably tell a kid that brought up Katrina or the Asian tsunami: <blockquote> Evil must be punished. God decided to bring a great flood on the earth to destroy evil men. </blockquote> (Shades of Pat Robertson after Katrina, I know...) And woe be to the child who might bring up that God promised to that there wouldn't be any more great floods. That'd probably rate demerits and a spanking - on the spot! The particular breed of fundamentalism that I was exposed to in the ACE school was good ol’ fire and brimstone fundamentalism. God was good and kind, all-powerful, all-knowing - but at the same time if you crossed him you were worthy of eternal torture.

I think the ACE curriculum samples from third grade science here would probably give you the best view of what a supervisor would probably tell a kid that brought up Katrina or the Asian tsunami:

Evil must be punished. God decided to bring a great flood on the earth to destroy evil men.

(Shades of Pat Robertson after Katrina, I know…)

And woe be to the child who might bring up that God promised to that there wouldn’t be any more great floods. That’d probably rate demerits and a spanking - on the spot!

]]> By: eric http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2853 eric Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:20:00 +0000 http://shrimpandgrits.rickandpatty.com/2006/08/02/ace-should-be-put-in-the-hole/#comment-2853 somehow i can hear "oceania is at war with east asia. oceania has always been at war with east asia." sounds like a hellish environment. one thing i'll explore a little further is the quandary of bringing up katrina and the tsunami when trying to talk about how god is kind in everything. i take perhaps an (i didn't start out with this irony) east asian view of the god of christianity. there is good and evil because we abstract it from a central truth. all we can know is that god didn't tell us we wouldn't suffer, just that we would never be alone. whether this curriculum teaches the spirit of that or not ... i don't think it's incorrect to say that everything is good from god. e+ somehow i can hear “oceania is at war with east asia. oceania has always been at war with east asia.”

sounds like a hellish environment.

one thing i’ll explore a little further is the quandary of bringing up katrina and the tsunami when trying to talk about how god is kind in everything.

i take perhaps an (i didn’t start out with this irony) east asian view of the god of christianity. there is good and evil because we abstract it from a central truth. all we can know is that god didn’t tell us we wouldn’t suffer, just that we would never be alone.

whether this curriculum teaches the spirit of that or not … i don’t think it’s incorrect to say that everything is good from god.

e+

]]>